Women on the Bench

-Story and photos by Maria Iacobo

Imagine graduating from law school, passing the bar and being told by law firms that you weren’t right for the job because of your gender.  Imagine. 

Chills might have gone down your spine – and not the good kind – when you heard two judges speak about the early years in their legal career at a recent USC Law event.

“My story isn’t much different than [former U.S. Supreme Court Justice] Sandra Day O’Connor’s,” said the Honorable Judith Ashman-Gerst, a California Court of Appeals judge.  (After appointment to the highest court in the country, O’Connor told of her experience as a new Stanford law graduate when every law firm in California turned her down; one offered her a position as a legal secretary.)

Judges Ashmann-Gerst, Nagle and Lu

Ashmann-Gerst was one of three judges who participated in a panel discussion, “Women on the Bench,” sponsored by the Women’s Law Association (WLA) and the Office of Public Service.  The panel was the third discussion in a series focusing on women in legal careers sponsored by the WLA for USC Law students.  The earlier programs were “Working for the Government” and “Private Practice and Parenting: Striking a Balance.”

Two of the judges illustrated the determination, integrity, patience and humor it took to get a job at a law firm not quite 30 years ago. 

Unable to land a job in a firm, Ashmann-Gerst secured a position in the state attorney general’s office in Los Angeles; interviewing for the job, Ashmann-Gerst was asked how her “husband felt about [her] working late” and her “child bearing plans.”  At work, she distinguished herself by focusing on women’s rights, civil rights and consumer fraud cases.  Active in bar association activities, she caught the eye of legislators and was appointed to the Los Angeles Municipal Court in 1981; she was elected to the Superior Court five years later and elevated to the Court of Appeals, 2nd District, in 2001.

Graduating from law school a few years after Ashmann-Gerst, the Honorable Margaret A. Nagle did not have an easier time getting a job.  Working as a summer associate at a New York City firm, one partner called her “a tough cookie.”

“It was so antithetical of my view of myself,” said Nagle.  “I realized you had to have qualities that men would relate to” to be taken seriously in the workplace.

Interviewing with law firms, Nagle also had to field thinly veiled questions about whether or not she was planning to have children.  Nagle received an offer from a Boston law firm and, moving to Los Angeles, eventually became partner in a Los Angeles firm. 

Early on, one client called her firm complaining, “You’re giving us a girl lawyer?”  Nagle credits a supportive partner stepping in to relieve any concerns.  She acknowledged that she delayed having children, waiting until after she had made partner.

“It is very hard in our society to juggle the top tier roles in law firms and have a family,” said Nagle.

Jumping ahead 20 years, Elaine Lu did not face the same hurdles the previous speakers encountered.  Graduating from law school in the 90s, she accepted a job as an assistant U.S. attorney, eventually serving as deputy chief in the general crimes section. 

Lu urged the students to try a variety of experiences in law school and sample the different areas of the practice.

“You’re lucky to be in law school here [in Los Angeles],” said Lu.  “The practice of law is so vibrant.  This is the time to try everything out.

Lu, appointed to the Los Angeles County Superior Court in 2007 by then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, suggested students extern for a judge either during school or after graduation.  She finds her current position to be “extremely rewarding,” as it allows her to be involved in the local community.

“It’s important for students to hear from Justice Ashmann-Gerst and what she did to pave the way for us,” said Amanda Farfel ’12, president of the Women’s Law Association and an extern for Ashmann-Gerst last summer.

“I thought the discussion was engaging and interesting,” said Farfel.  “The audience seemed surprised that things like that actually happened to women.  I know that there are still unique obstacles that women face, but I’d like to think that the playing field is a little more level.”

One of WLA’s goals is to help students strengthen their relationships while in school to enhance their professional network after graduation.

“I spoke to one of the men who attended the talk and he thought the obstacles the women faced were important to know,” said Farfel.  “It’s a glimpse into the reality of the working world , different from the theory we learn in school.”
 

Students interested in learning more about judicial externships for academic credit should contact the Office of Public Service at [email protected].

For more information on the Women's Law Association, visit http://lawweb.usc.edu/why/students/orgs/wla.cfm